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jgimbel
suffering 'studio suck'
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 429
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:38 pm Post subject: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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I asked this before a while ago, but it was lumped in with another question so it never really got clearly answered. I need some good bass trapping in my space, so I'm going to make some. The place I'm getting it from is here - http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--Fiberglass-and-Mineral-Wool-Batts-and-Boards--106.html
The first two products are Roxul Acoustical Fire Batts - $34 for 6 2" thick pieces, and Roxul Rockboard 60, $50 for the same. The Rockboard is rigid (like styrofoam in strengt it says) while the Fire Batts are not. There is also ATS Acoustics Rigid Fiberglass Board, $60. I don't have a ton of money to spend so I've been looking mostly at the first two, but I'm willing to spend a bit more for what will work better. BTW I'll be doubling up for each trap so they'll be 4" thick.
Some sources say to use rigid insulation, while other don't specify. I see things on here all the time about bass traps and I've UTFSF many times on here and the rest of the internet, and I haven't found anything to say whether it needs to be or not.
So will getting the Fire Batts be okay? Or would one of the other products be noticeably better? |
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CurtZHP
suffering 'studio suck'
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Location: Allentown, PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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I've used non-rigid mineral wool, and it works great. It's the density of the material that matters. You just need to build a frame of some sort to support the batts and some acoustically transparent fabric to cover them.
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JWL
tinnitus
Joined: 02 Apr 2006
Posts: 1179
Location: Portland, Maine
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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Yeah, don't worry about whether the material is "rigid" or not. Ultratouch cotton is extremely floppy but works great for sound treatments.
What's important is the performance of the chosen material at absorbing sound... at ALL frequencies. If the manufacturer is reputable you will see absorption specs across the frequency spectrum, from 100 or 125Hz all the way up.
Also, you don't want to pay shipping on this stuff, see if you can find a local insulation supply house (find out where local insulation contractors get their materials). If they don't stock it they can probably special order it for you.
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jgimbel
suffering 'studio suck'
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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Interesting, thank you for the responses. This website doesn't supply a frequency chart for their products. The only mention is in the FAQ it states that 4" thick panels work 4 times as well as 2" panels at 125hz, while both work equally from 500hz and up. My plan was to double up on 2"s anyway, but I'm really more curious about lower frequencies since they're for bass traps. I'm looking for a chart I saw a few months ago that compared the acoustic properties of at least 15-20 different products. It had density, along with (IIRC) what it was rated for at different frequencies. They were grouped by company, with one for Cornings, one for Rockwool, etc. I can't seem to find it in searching, anyone know the one? It was a white site with black text.
I'd love to use those Fire Batts if they'll work well for bass trapping, or even the Rockboard 60 as the price is right. I believe they're both on the chart I was looking for. I think I had come to the conclusion that they'd be fine for bass traps, though when I do find the chart I might have to get a second opinion here! With my budget I can't afford to pay for materials twice. Hell if anyone even just knows for a fact that the fire batts would be okay for bass trapping I'll just go with them.
As far as finding local to avoid shipping costs, I've contacted local insulation places, and I've generally gotten the consensus "uhh...acoustic stuff isn't what we do..". I'll keep looking. The shipping isn't completely outrageous at the link I posted though so if I have to I'll just eat the shipping costs. |
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digitaldrummer
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Location: Round Rock, Texas
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The Scum
tinnitus
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 1059
Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:17 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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I'll go +1 on the recommendation for a local supplier.
Don't ask for acoustical stuff. They'll refer you to someone who sells drop ceilings. (I think one Denver seller is simply called "Insulation Supply.").
Simply ask for rigid fiberglass board. Owens Corning 705, or whatever the other brand's equivalents are (you'll need to do a little research to see what the other companies call their products...Mansville, etc).
This stuff is not uncommon, and will be available in any metropolitan market. Hotels and office buildings are full of it. And in the commercial insulation market, it's significantly cheaper from anyone reselling it as "acoustical material," though you may have to meet some minimum purchase quantity...sometimes they'll even deliver. |
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jgimbel
suffering 'studio suck'
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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digitaldrummer thanks, that's the one!
scum, yeah i didn't think of that whole lovely part of the business, that the name alone raises the price. i wish i was Denver, i'd use that place! i'll have to find an equivalent in philadelphia.
Do insulation places like these that don't specifically sell the acoustic variety normally sell them in the same size (24x48)? I'd love to avoid having to cut insulation if possible just because of the lack of space I've got. |
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The Scum
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Joined: 04 Jul 2003
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Location: Denver, CO
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:11 am Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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24*48 is common. So is 48*97 (or was it 49*96? It's an extra inch one way or the other).
Somewhere in Philly is a shop with a ton of the stuff, ready to go.
And it's really easy to cut. I use a dollar-store bread knife and a drywall square - and the bread knife is overkill. |
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CurtZHP
suffering 'studio suck'
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Location: Allentown, PA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:01 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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Up here in Allentown, there's a place called "Building Specialties" that carries mineral wool batts pretty cheap. They have another location down near Willow Grove, but I can't remember exactly where. If you call the Allentown shop they could probably tell you.
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jjucius
audio school
Joined: 30 Aug 2008
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Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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Question, couldent you take regular unfaced insulation and compress it so it has the same density as rigid fiberglass? just a thought.
Joe |
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CurtZHP
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| Posted: Sat Nov 07, 2009 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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Theoretically, you could. But you'd have to have something there to hold it in compression.
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jgimbel
suffering 'studio suck'
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:24 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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| I never thought it'd be so difficult to find a supplier! I called Building Specialties in Allentown, and they didn't seem to have anything similar. I must have called 10 places in and around Philadelphia, and the few that actually had anything close couldn't sell it in anything less than big buik quantities. A number of places had never heard of Corning 703 or 705, which seemed surprising. One place had 3/4" thick pieces of a no-name brand foam that has foil on one side, 5 pieces in a pack for $6.68. Great price, but I'm kind of wary just because I'm not sure about the absorption coefficients, not to mention the sheer amount of packs I'd have to buy to equal the thickness I'm looking at. I think I'll just go with that first link. Phew! |
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mrc
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jgimbel
suffering 'studio suck'
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 429
Location: Philadelphia, PA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:37 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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| mrc wrote: | | http://www.soundaway.com/fiberglass_s/29.htm |
Perhaps I wasn't clear, it's not hard to find somewhere online to get 703 (though thank you for posting the link). But people have suggested finding somewhere local, ie. not online, to avoid big shipping costs, and that I could find it cheaper than on the link I posted (which it's definitely not there). Finding a place locally and cheaper is what has been difficult, not finding somewhere at all that sells 703/703. Thank you though! |
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CurtZHP
suffering 'studio suck'
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
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Location: Allentown, PA
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| Posted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: Does insulation for bass traps need to be rigid? |
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| jgimbel wrote: | | I never thought it'd be so difficult to find a supplier! I called Building Specialties in Allentown, and they didn't seem to have anything similar. I must have called 10 places in and around Philadelphia, and the few that actually had anything close couldn't sell it in anything less than big buik quantities. A number of places had never heard of Corning 703 or 705, which seemed surprising. One place had 3/4" thick pieces of a no-name brand foam that has foil on one side, 5 pieces in a pack for $6.68. Great price, but I'm kind of wary just because I'm not sure about the absorption coefficients, not to mention the sheer amount of packs I'd have to buy to equal the thickness I'm looking at. I think I'll just go with that first link. Phew! |
That's a shock. I bought a ton of mineral wool from them over the last couple years. They had pallets stacked to the rafters with it. Bundles of six batts each for about $25-30 a bundle. I'll have to see if I saved one of the labels from a bundle. It'll have a stock number on it, and that might help them track down what you need.
Then again, I'd call back and ask them to put you in touch with their Warminster location. That site seemed to have more stock as I recall. The Allentown site was kind of hit-or-miss with that stuff.
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